What ever happened to Willie Boy.....

The true story of Willie Boy, as I heard from the Indians in my family

Willie boy's Grave Marker in White WaterWhen I was a kid my Uncle Leroy, part Paiute Indian, Part Mexican, part white, told us the story of Willie Boy.

Supposedly an uncle of his and how he led the Sheriff and his pose From Palm Canyon south of Palm Springs, up through White Water and up into the Ruby Mt area....Today you can see thousands of High Powered Wind Mills scattered through the same area.

Who was Willie Boy and is his legend true? Even a movie, "Tell them Willie boy is here" was made in 1969 with Robert Blake playing Willie Boy, and Robert Redford playing the Sheriff, and was based on a book, which I own, called 'A Desert Manhunt'

As to the legend being true, most assuredly.  Did the movie "Tell them Willie boy is here" get it right?  Aside from "Tombstone" being very close to being historically correct, this movie is very close to the actual facts, places, and characters involved in the manhunt.

Willie Boy was a Paiute Indian, uncle to my uncle Leroy Arnize, (Arnesto in Spanish) who in 1909 ran off with his lover after killing her father in self defense.  He found him bent over, beating his girlfriend, named Lola, and when he tried to interfere and stop him, Lola's father went after Willie Boy.  So he had to kill him.  The tribal elders tried to defend Willie but White Man's law took precedent over Indain Law and Sheriff Cooper was dispatched from Riverside to track him down and charge Willie Boy with murder.

Willie and Lola are hunted for several days and were almost caught in White Water when Willie's Horse spooked as a Train went by.  But White Water was dry and they were able to escape under the track trestle and make it into the Hills to the north of White Wate.  Willie Boy had a clear shot of the posse as they advanced up the river bed, so he started taking pot shots at them, trying to kill their horses, hoping to slow them down.  But Willie Boy ends up accidentally shooting one of the bounty hunters as he walks in front of his horse just as Willie shot.  The Sheriff had another Murder charge on his hands..

They manage to evade the bounty hunters for several days until it's obvious that the posse was catching up to them.  So Lola shoots herself in order to slow down the posse's advance, but Sheriff Cooper thinks that Willie Boy has killed her, but doesn't understand why.  The posse is growing restless and most of them take off on their own to hunt Willie down.  But Sheriff Cooper goes off alone to try and kill Willie Boy, before the main posse catches up to him.

As soon as Cooper catches up, he comes under fire from Willie Boy who is dug into a small cave at the top of Ruby Mountain.  Cooper is almost shot several times as he tries to climb up the hill.  In truth, the Sheriff finally manages to make his way up behind Willie and tries to talk him to surrendering.  But Willie Boy wont surrender.  Willie swings around to try to shoot the Sheriff, but Sheriff Cooper Beats him with his shot gun.  When the Sheriff checks Willie Boy's body the Sheriff  discovers that Willie was out of bullets.  The Sherrif pulled Willie Boy's gun out of his pants and discovers that it too is empty. To Cooper it is evident that Willie Boy Forced the Sheriff to kill him, in other words, perhaps the first "suicide by cop".

The Sheriff is actually crestfallen.  He carefully gathers Willie Boy's body, carries him down the slope of Ruby Mt to his horse and the waiting posse..  There are several Tribal leaders with the posse and the Sheriff gives them the body of Willie Boy, who then take Willie's body away and later burn it.

The Bounty hunters are not happy with Sheriff Cooper. They wanted Willie Boy's  body to collect their money they felt they had coming to them.  One of the posse members is reported to have said that the 'People have got see something so they will be sure this murder is dead'.  Sheriff Cooper is reported to have responded.  "Sorry, I dont have any souvenirs for them"

Willy Boy's grave monument is erected at the exact same location where he was shot, died and buried by the tribal leaders and has never been disturbed in any way.  So the next time you are out by White Water, remember, that Willie boy was really out there, causing all sorts of trouble and creating a undying legend.

Classification: 

Comments

I don't understand your article.  You refer to the Sheriff as Cooper.  Are you talking about the movie?  There was no Cooper in the manhunt.  My grandfather was Ben de Crevecoeur.  I have never heard from anyone (including a relative of Willie Boy's) that Old Mike was beating Isoleta and that Willie (or rather Billie Boy, which was his real name) had stopped him.  As for the white man's law taking precedent, Old Mike's wife called Ben the next morning. Ben was Constable and a United States special officer at Banning. He was assisted by an old friend, Joe Toutain, Ben’s brother Waldemar and his half-brother John Jost when needed. Ben advised Sheriff Frank Wilson via telegram of the murder of Old Mike and the kidnapping of Isoleta. John ran the Blue Front Livery Stable so Ben arranged for a wagon. Ben, Waldemar, Joe Toutain and John Jost went to the Gilman Ranch. Jim and Martha Gilman gave the men coffee and told them that Willie Boy had taken a Winchester .30-30 rifle and 15-20 cartridges. Because nothing else was taken, it was assumed that Willie Boy and Isoleta were on foot and would probably head for one of the reservations. 

Ben did not shot Willie either.  Willie shot himself just as the ambushed posse left.  Charlie Reche, who had been wounded in the ambush believed that Willie had not intended to shoot him since he had been shooting as the horses and he also believed that Willie shot himself because he would not have faired well after shooting a white law man.  

Thank you.
Zoe de Crevecoeur-Erickson

By erickrz

I have the young lady's name to be Carolato, Isoleta and Lola...spelling may not be exact. Which is true....so many different stories it is hard to know what to believe...I also read she was beaten before being shot...Those bruises could have come from the hard trip across the mountain especially if she fell alot. The on thing I can say is that this was a great tragedy for all concerned.

By Anonymous

A lot of the information i use for my stories is from my extremely large family and their recollections of events and other sources i locate....The story of WILLIE BOY or Billy boy comes from my talks with my dad and most recently my uncle Le Roy who says his dad was in the chase as an indain scout....Families memories fade with time, and my uncle is 82.

 I welcome your correction as it adds to the story....perhaps you have a different view altogether....i would enjoy reading it and comparing....thanks for your contibution to the IE.  theghostpainter

By Ghostpainter

Do you know the GPS coordinates for the plaque ??? Is it somewhere that one might be able to hike to ??

 

Thankx

Historik

By historik

theghostpainter

Coordinates; GPS: N 34 degrees 17.497 W 116 degrees 32.194

To reach the gravesite take I-10 to SR-62 to Yucca Valley, left on Old Woman Springs Road through Flamingo Heights. Just past the sign marking the town of Landers turn left on New Dixie Mine Road (State Route 247). This dirt road takes you approximately 6.5 miles to a fence which marks the wilderness area prohibiting motorized traffic. It is a 2.5 mile relatively level walk to the gravesite.

You can also follow the basin of White Water Creek from the 10 freeway back into the Hills on a 15 mile very hot, dusty trail but there are no signs or markers telling you where you are. It is the same route the Posse took back to Banning.

By Ghostpainter

Remember that the plaque is not a gravesite - it is merely the speculative site of where WB was during the shoot-out, although I have my doubts even about that. The story has always been that WB was on top of Ruby Mountain shooting down at his pursuers, but the site of the marker is two mountains, and 5 crow-flying miles, away from Ruby Mountain. There really is no properly informed disagreement that WB did not kill himself [Indians are not into suicide], but instead escaped to 29 Palms, got provisions, and went on to Nevada, where he died many years later. The "body" seen in the various pix is far too stout to be that of the athletic runner that WB was. If it had been him, they would have shown the face, as with all "brave" trophy hunters' pictures! The heft of the body is not explained by it having been in the desert for weeks, because coyotes would have devoured it, and the belt would not have expanded with a bloating belly. The pursuing cops did not want to concede that they could not catch one young brave, so they manufactured the story of his killing himself - there is nothing new about police, or long ago just as now, manufacturing "facts."

By capmotion

If you head North from Yucca Valley on Highway 247 you will cross The Pipes Canyon Road...it was somewhere in this canyon that Carlota was killed. If you have a "Southern California Atlas & Gazetteer" you can see just north of The Pipes and off to the West of 247 the words, "Ruby Mountain." The plaque is out there....I have seen it, but I can;t remember the dirt roads we took to find it. (I was a guest of Jim Sandos who wrote the book, "The Hunt for Willie Boy," and he knew where it was.

Because the plaque's site constitues a "Native" burial site, they have blocked the road a few miles before the plaque site; so you have to get out and walk in. There must be locals who can point you to the site.

By Anonymous

This comment has been moved here: Willie Boy

By Anonymous

I have been there many times... We have cabin in johnson valley.13 mile motorcycle ride from our place you can hike to it no problem... sorry no gps location...

By Butch

It sounds like the indians were smokin that pipe a bit too much!

By Anonymous

I heard Willie boy escaped the posse and actually died near Las Vegas in the 20's, I really hope that's the truth, as the injusticies done to him still continue to be done to others today to further careers on the bodies of innocents.

By Anonymous

It's easy 100 years later to judge the career building of others but let's face afew facts:
He did kill Mike
He did run off with Mike's daughter to escape justice.
He did shoot at a posse and kill their horses and one member of the posse.
He possibly killed the girl
If he did kill himself it adds to the saleability of his story.
So I doubt he was an innocent. He obviously did not care who he hurt as long as he took what he wanted.

If we can't tell the story of others without being judged then let's just stop teaching history because every teacher of history (including my son) makes a career that way.
as for injustices those so often in the telling or the eye of the beholder. Do the victims feel an injustice was done to the perpetrator or to their loved ones?

By Anonymous

"He did run off with Mike's daughter to escape justice."
===================
Actually, he probably ran off with her because he loved her, which was his plan before Mike intervened.
===================
"He did shoot at a posse and kill their horses and one member of the posse."
===================
Uh, they were shooting at him! I'd shoot back too.
===================
"He possibly killed the girl."
===================
He did no such thing. The reactionary Indian tracker Hyde killed her and then tried to pin it on Willie Boy.
===================
"If he did kill himself...."
===================
Not a chance. Utterly inconsistent with his culture. He moved on to Nevada and lived for decades.
===================
"So I doubt he was an innocent. He obviously did not care who he hurt as long as he took what he wanted."
===================
Ditto the racist, reactionary posse.

By capmotion

Willie Boy returned just hours after Carlota had been shot and spotted the posse in the Pipes. Unaware that Carlota was dead, he tried to protect her by leading the posse away, north into Ruby Mountain.

There, he pinned them down in an ambush from a rock pile. Firing away, Willie Boy killed three horses and wounded another. Two bullets lodged in one deputy's hip and thigh.

In an exchange of shouting between gunfire, the lawmen accused Willie Boy of brutally murdering Carlota because she had slowed his flight.

Then there was nothing but silence.

When the moon rose, the five posse members hoisted the wounded deputy into the saddle of the surviving horse and started back to Banning for a doctor. But before they got very far, they heard one last shot in the night.

Distraught over Carlota's death and wanting to join her in the afterlife, Willie Boy had taken off his shoe, put the rifle barrel against his chest and squeezed the trigger with his toe. The weary lawmen, hearing the shot, suspected he had killed himself but didn't go back to find out.
The press refused to believe Willie Boy was dead or to let a good story die. Hoping to raise circulation with white fears of a reckless Indian still on the loose, reporters trumped up rumors of a presidential assassination plot.
The timing was perfect. President William Howard Taft was scheduled to arrive in San Bernardino and Riverside counties as part of a national trip to buoy his presidential image.

Taft's visit--along with the fact that his nickname was Billie Boy, an eerie echo of the young Indian's--spurred men to form a larger posse to find either Willie Boy or his body
On Oct. 15, eight days after Willie Boy's death and three days after Taft's train rolled out of Riverside without incident, the posse found Willie Boy's badly decomposed body at the ambush site on Ruby Mountain. They burned his body on the rocks where it lay.

By Anonymous

How do you know that Willie Boy returned a few hours after her body was found?  Where had he gone.  The posse had tracked them to the Pipes the night before her body was found.  He did not return to the area for 7 days when he ambushed Reche's posse.  Did he expect Carlota to survive that long with only a few provisions and a canteen of water, which was empty when they found her body?

His body was not that badly decomposed.  That is one of the reason's I don't think that Willie Boy was killed.  However, I have other reason's as to why I think he was.  I have decided that we will never know for sure. 

By erickrz

My uncle Leroy Arnize and my Great uncle Henry Arnize were well aware of whar was happening in the Willie Boy Chase. It was one of the really big news events of the day that was followed by the press people on site, but even more so since my Uncle Henry was also a volunteer but was not picked for the possee because of his Indian ties. The entire family changed there name from Arnesto to Arnize and through several marriages became realtives of ours. Both of them told me that Willie Boy was killed by the Possee. Not just the Sherriff. So thats where I come from. theghostpainter

By Ghostpainter

please see my comments on this sight

best regards,

ron house hidesert playhouse

By ronald House

Sorry guys, the Sheriff at the time of this incident was Frank P. Wilson, Riverside County's fourth Sheriff, who served from 1907-1923.

By Anonymous

Reference the comment about Sheriff Wilson, it can be verified by going to www.riversidesheriff.org and clicking on the "History" section under Departmental Information. 

By IEDeputy

I drove to Willie Boy's gravesite in January 2009 and didn't encounter any barriers on either route in or out. Info on my visit can be read here: http://ronslog.typepad.com/ronslog/2009/01/willie-boy.html.

By Ron

please see my comments on this sight

best regards,

ron house

hidesert playhouse

By ronald House

Of course, Willie Boy is not buried there, because he escaped and lived elsewhere for many years. But the site from the New Dixie Mine Road [have never found the "mine"] is through wilderness area and one has to pass a barrier to get there now. I am wondering about the road in the ravine below it, which heads off to the left, which is seemingly where the posse was - how do you get in to that road? I came in that way many years ago, but I can't recall how I got there.

By capmotion

Please see my comments on this sight

Ron House

By ronald House

To those interested in Willie Boy - I would encourage my friends here to take a broader view of the acts of 25 september 1909. eThe whole Willie Boy incident is treated by white people as some sort of detective case instead of a culture clash. No one mentions the fact that Swift Fox or Willie Boy was an Indians. He danced the "Ghost Dance" dance with Wokova a Paiute. who had a vision of the meeting of the alive and dead Indians coming together. The return of the Buffalo. Swift Fox/ Willie Boy believed in the after life. Nothing is mention of the desperate plight of the Indians. The genocide of the Indians like "Wounded Knee". The total disregard of our native brothers but the US government.

The Indians Lost the War but in their losing they find Pride. The whites Won the War but in their winning they find Shame.

Geronimo was held as prisoner of War of 22 years at Fort Still Ok. Not one confederate was ever held as a prisoner of war. Why one law for the Indians another for the whites.

This will be further studied beginning at the HiDesert Playhouse on September 18 till October 3 in the Production of Swift Fox the Conflicting stories of Willie Boy. Please join us there will be a discussion every night after the performance.

yours sincerely,

Ron House

By Ronald House

I join Ron in suggesting that those interested in this subject attend the fine production Ron is putting on in Joshua Tree. I attended a public reading of the script, largely [exclusively?] written by Ron, based on Burgess/Sandoz as well as the racist versions, and the play will be incredible, and informative. [Indeed, everything Ron produces/directs/scripts is superb.]

Also, on September 26, there will be a symposium on the subject at the Gilman Ranch, which is where Willie Boy and Mike Boniface were working when this all commenced.

By capmotion

I wish I was able to be there and I am sure that my now deceased uncles would have liked to see there version presented....

I just wrote about the story and I think I have found more information and truths about Willie Boy than I ever thought.

His story is truly respresentitive of the plight of the indains carried down from the Spannish Missionaries. If more people knew the truth about how the Spannish treated the indains, the white mans current modern day love affair with the missions would change.

At least I hope it would change. I know that there are always those out there that think they are superior to any other race. That lack of understanding and ignorance is a shame.

theghostpainter

By Ghostpainter

The play being put on in Joshua Tree, Hi-Desert Cultural Center, on a thoughtful and powerful script written by Ron House, "Swift Fox," is a tour de force that should be seen by all. It closes October 4, 2009.

By capmotion

Do you have any more info about the symposium at Gilman Ranch (cost, time, who's organizing it)? There's nothing about it on the Gilman Ranch website.

By Ron

It was yesterday [9/26/09]. There is a DVD of the presentations [two scholars; two descendants of people involved; heated and lively discussion] available; those interested should contact Gilman Ranch for details.

By capmotion

Thank you for this most educated and informed post.

By johnette napolitano

I agree. All parties are quite educated. However, all stories have three sides to them. One's, the other's, and the truth. We will possibly never learn the truth, but may make some educated guesses.

PS: Johnette: Big Fan!

By angela de bello...

Ron, it always surprises me how you left wingers justify your anti-White racism. If men like Wovoka or Pontiac or Tecumseh had gotten their way every White person on the continent would have been exterminated. Not EXACTLY "We are the World"! But you just keep pumping your propaganda that excuses Indian acts of mass murder against Whites it seems to make you soooo happy.
P.S. as a man whose parents are both Southerners your ignorant statement regarding the aftermath of the Civil War is breath taking! There was no need to have any Confederate prisoners as the Union Army occupied the entire South and did everything they could keep it racked with poverty for more than a decade! And even when they left the economic elite of the U.S. (headquartered in "liberal" New York) subjected the South to economic segregation for another (almost) SEVENTY YEARS until FDR (who because of his polio treatments in Warm Springs Georgia learned what the Northern "economic royalists" had done to the South)decided to try and do something about it. A goal that wasn't fully achieved until the 1960's(!) under LBJ!
People of Color are NOT the ONLY victims of "White Society" and they, also, are NOT innocent of the crimes of mass murder and genocide just less successful( on THIS continent anyway!). So SPARE me your ignorant self righteousness!

By Mitchell Day

Dear Mitchell - I am assuming you attended the reading of Swift Fox at Riverside Community Players. Thank you for your support and interest in history. I was unable to attend due to knee surgery.

To answer some of your points-

I am not anti-white. I was reporting what happened based on historical records. I am not inventing these things. However, there are a lot of holes in the Willie Boy story, therefore I tried to report the same event as told by different people.

"If men like Wovoka or Pontiac or Tecumseh had gotten their way every White person on the continent would have been exterminated". -

This statement is based on what? Tecumseh, in the 1840's, went to Washington to negotiate with the government- hardly an act of a "White Hating Savage" It sounds like you are coming more out of anger than fact. Remember, Gral;. William Tecumseh Sherman I imagine you have low regard for Uncle Billy and his march to Georgia, however, he was given this name long before the conflict 1861-1865. My point being, Tecumseh must have been held in high regard by many white people, if they were naming their children after him.

" But you just keep pumping your propaganda that excuses Indian acts of mass murder against Whites it seems to make you soooo happy." -

Let's start with the worst atrocities of the 19th. century with 365 Indians who were cut down with gatling guns, "Wounded Knee", following with "The trail of tears", which I assume you know was "The Removal of the Indian tribes from the Carolinas" by then president Jackson .

Could you please mention just ONE mass murder equivalent to the ones stated above?

" your ignorant statement regarding the aftermath of the Civil War is breath taking! There was no need to have any Confederate prisoners as the Union Army occupied the entire South and did everything they could keep it racked with poverty for more than a decade"

I am very aware of the reconstruction period. The South was divided in 13 military districts and remained an occupied territory until the "Bloody Shirt Campaign" in the election of 1876. The point is not about the need to imprison Confederates, but the fact that it was done to the Indians and not done to the Confederates- both enemies of the Federal Gov.
There was no need to confiscate 90 million acres of tribal land and force Indians on to reservation.
Is your point that it wasn't necessary in the South but it was necessary for the indians?

I will now close and again thank you for your response to Swift Fox: The Untold Story of Willie Boy.

Sincerely,

Ron House
ronhouseproductions.com

By ron house

And Ron's "Swift Fox...." is truly superb. I'm not sure of the cause of all the vitriol here [or maybe I am!], but only a fool or a hypocrite would assert that there was not a genocidal attitude of American "whites" against Native Americans [and there are vestiges of that animus even now]. That does not mean Native Americans are innocent of racial prejudice - the last Southern general to surrender after the Civil War was Stand Watie, a Cherokee chief who sided with the South [and became a brigadier general in the southern Army] because he wanted to be able to keep his black slaves!

By capmotion

Capmotion to whom are you directing your post? What do you mean by"maybe I am!". Who exactly has claimed that there was no "genocidal" attitude of White Americans? It certainly wasn't me (by the way "cappy" why do you use lower case letters and quotes for Whites do you have some unstated animus towards us?)! I was just stating that the Indians were guilty of hatred and genocidal atrocities as well which you also state but only after prodding by me! As far as your comments regarding Stand Watie and the Cherokees of Oklahoma fighting for the South it had nothing to do with slavery as the Indians version of that repugnant institution hardly qualified for the title. It was because they didn't trust the U.S. Government to keep it's treaty obligations!

In conclusion thanks for your remarks they are VERY revealing!
Yours in Truth,

Mitchell Day

By Mitchell Day

I use lower case for "whites" because we are not usually as politically sensitive as other groups about such absurdisms. Not usually!

By Mike Kennedy

I'm not any more sensitive about subtle social slights to my community by self-loathing members of it than anyone else.

By Mitchell Day

You also didn't explain the quotes.

By Mitchell Day

O.k. first off Ron,
"This statement is based on what?" On Tecumseh own words!Such as "let the white race perish.They seize your land ,they corrupt your women(in other words Tecumseh was a racist who was against interracial marriage),they trample the bones of your dead! Back whence they came, upon a trail of blood , they must be driven, burn their dwellings, destroy their stock, slay their wives and children, that the very breed may perish!" Is that good enough for you Ron?
The Trail of Tears happened because having Indians in those areas constituted a fifth column that was always being encouraged and supplied to wage war by both outside Indian leaders (like Tecumseh and Pontiac) or European powers like the French (as in the French and Indian War)or the British (as in the War of 1812:fighting the Red Stick Creeks). There would have been no loss of life on the Trail had it not been for the obstinance of the anti-treaty Cherokee leaders. The pro-treaty bands saw the jig was up and willingly went to Oklahoma and became quite successful (the anti-treaty bands would become successful eventually too). Andrew Jackson forced the "Five Civilized Tribes" out as the only way to AVOID mass killing. As far as ignorant and self loathing Whites naming their children after Tecumseh nothing much has changed in over a hundred years!
Next "Could you mention just ONE mass muder equivalent to the ones mentioned above?"
O.k. Ron, The Dakota Uprising of 1862! In which 450 to 800 innocent White civilians were cruelly and needlessly butchered! And almost as many disappeared and assumed to have been sold into slavery never to be seen again!How's that Ronny?
Next "Is it your contention that it wasn't necessary in the South but is was necessary for the Indians?" No Ron it was my contention that the U.S. Government made the WHOLE SOUTH a reservation for a HINDRED YEARS! But apparently you missed that!

I will now close and Thank You for YOUR response!
Yours in Truth,

Mitchell Day

By Mitchell Day

I think, Dear Mitchell, that you have some..., well, issues. I am not certain what the solution is.

By Mike Kennedy

Yes Mike, I DO have issues. That is how some people point the finger at every body but themselves ;)

By Mitchell Day

Maybe [harsher treatment of the Indians than the Confederates] because no one believed the South would rise again and they really thought the Indian Tribes would continue to fight for their survival. Just kidding! : )

By Gail K Lightfoot

Gail,the tribes weren't just fighting for their survival. They were trying to exterminate White Americans. That's the part of the social equation that gets lost in the Marxist interpretaion of our history.
Also, I'm not sure you could say that the treatment of the Indians was harsher (consider the pellagra epidemic in the South) it just lasted longer. But that was because the Whites had been fighting the Indians since the 1600's. As far as the South rising again just check out the recent scholarship concerning the real motivation behind the career of the James/Younger gang.
I find it interesting to note that the problems of both the Indians and the Southerners didn't really get attended to until the Sixties. I don't think either group had been a threat for more than half a century!

By Mitchell Day

He killed 2 people, even indians understood that. None of them diserved that, even white people, understand that.So under either culture, he was, and is a killer so get over it. A killer is a killer...................

By Anonymous

It's cowardly people like "anonymous" here that perpetuate racism and hate.
It's obvious Mrs.Anonymous, Mother if a History Teacher, that you have no idea of Indian Culture and history. It's a shame that you don't take the time to look at the reality of the genocide of our only TRUE NATIVE AMERICANS. I suppose your ancestors came over on the Mayflower and thought of Indians as heathens to be saved by your religion. You are so ill informed and hateful that I sincerely hope that you adopt a more Christian attitude and stop judging people and events that you know nothing of. I also hope that YOU get over it.
BB

By BB an Indian Wo...

BB, as the great, great grandson of a full blood Coctaw woman I can say without reservation that your entire screed is nothing but politically correct twaddle. First off calling Willie Boy a murderer is not "hateful" but just a different OPINION as there is some dispute as to the reason Willie Boy killed Mike Boniface. What has THAT got to do Indian Culture. Next you express a fair amount of ignorance and hate yourself. The Indians ARE NOT native to North or South America but immigrated here JUST LIKE EVRYBODY ELSE! And as far as genocide goes they tried their damnedest to do it to White people as well. White folks are no more guilty of the sins of humanity than anyone else! Look at your OWN hands BB they are COVERED in blood.

By Mitchell Day

Only Mike Boniface was killed in the incident. It was the "yellow press" reporters who sensationalized Willie into being a drunken serial murder and into Carlota being shot in the breast by Willie Boy after a savage drunken rage rape and beating. The possie member was not killed, just wounded badly and survied much to everyone's suprise and relief. Carlota was shot from behind from a distance of approx 100 feet. She was wearing Willy Boy's jacket and it is generally concluded that she was mistakenly shot by John Hyde, who thought she was Willy Boy from that distance of viewing.

By artdacious

Shot by Hyde, and then covered up by the rest of law enforcement on scene, with blame shifted to Willie Boy, to enable Ben to obtain a permanent appointment [he got it] and to enable Wilson's re-election [he was]. Law enforcement practices have not changed much in the past 100 years.

By capmotion

There have been tragic events in every culture on this planet since human life began. All cultures have brutilized and have been brutilized throughout history. There have been so many who have loved and lost and fought for what they believed in. The world has changed for the better in some places but remain brutal in others. As far as the United States, Law Enforcement has come a long way and for the better. To state Law Enforcement practices have not changed much in the past 100 years is just ignorant babble!!! Law enforcement is ever changing to the demands of society, there is no perfect solution for each occurance. Having been in Law Enforcement for the past 18 years I can say that the magority of Police Officers are hounest, hard working people who want to do the right thing. When you hear of an officer making a poor decision, you hear the uneducated, loud mouthed know it alls run their mouths how all cops are dirty, Really???? So do you have the same opinion to the doctors, lawyers, salesman and so on when you hear one of them going bad or making a bad judgement?? Probably not!! Look up how many people die at the hands of the medical comunity every year and then look at the number that die at the hands of officers, there is no comparison but I'll bet you still go to the doctor when you'er sick. More people die at the hands of others driving cars then die at the hands of police but you still drive. I grew up on the other side of the tracks, so to speak and have made my share of mistakes but I don't just jump on the bandwagon and tear other people down when I don't even have any facts to back them up. I did'nt grow up hating police officers because I got caught doing something I knew was wrong, how pathetic would I be if I did?? I never went to court and cried like a baby and lied to the judge about running the stop sign like 99 percent of the people do that go to court now days. I grew up knowing I had to take responsibility for my actions and to do it like a mature adult. I don't throw everyone into the fire based on the actions of a few!!!

There are plenty of times when someone gets into any business that should'nt be there and causes an incident that drags everyone down. I for one am proud to be a police officer and do my job to the best of my abilities. There is no way to respond to everyones needs that will satisfy everyone.

I'm sure that law enforcement 100 years ago had difficulty with the changing cultures probably more so then we do today. Law enforcement today have unlimited resorces that were not even heard of then. Most law enforcement agencies did not have any training at all and anyone taking the job did it based on their own life experience. Imagine that!!! Just like any other type of profession!!!!

So before you go on your "I hate the cops" campain please feel free to come on down and show us all how it's done. Who know's you may actually have an idea that would change law enforcement forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have Choctaw Indian in my blood lines along with French and German. My ancestors come from different parts of the world and had to fight for what they thought was right at the time. I do not know anyone who knew Willy Boy but would love to spend time with someone from that arra but I know they are long gone and a part of history. I don't know if Willy Boy was just a criminal who just wanted to do what ever he wanted and to hell with everyones laws or if white mans culture or Indian culture drove him the direction he went. Without having been there in those times I can't even imagine how hard it would be to except that your culture was being exterminated all around you and there was nothing you could do about it no matter how hard you fought back. To state Willy Boy was just a Lawless outlaw of that time without having been there is no better then stating all law enforcement is corrupt!!!!!!

I have explored the back country of the west for many years and have often dreamed of what it was like living on all sides, Indians, Law Men and Outlaws. I once found a cave outside of Farmington New Mexico that an outlaw named Sam Carson once hid out in. I learned of the outlaws horse and cattle rustling back in the early 80s and it has facinated me since. I was young then and now in my fifties still want to go back and explore the cave as a more mature and educated adult.

I will always fantasize about the Wild West and what it must have been like to roam free without fences or Laws. The ability to get on a horse and ride till you'er tired and live where you wished. Those days are over but will forever be in my mind......

By John LaFontaine

Sir I strongly agree with everything you say. I have been on the wrong side of the law years ago what ever happened to me I deserved. If you do the crime be ready to do the time. I wish now so many times I could have went into law enforcement. Like I thought my children and grandchildren the man that wears the badge is here to help you even if it cost his life. I too have Choctaw blood in me and love exploring the old west.

I thank you sir for what you do in law enforcement

By Rick

Pages

Add new comment